Budimir: The arrests were done to jeopardize Croat - Bosniak relations

Zivko Budimir is a retired general of the HVO (The Croatian Defense Council). He is also a longtime seasoned politician. He was the president of Federation BiH from 2011 to 2015. 

In an interview with Patria he revealed his views about the arrest of the former members of the HVO in Orasje as a 'frame-up', he explained why he believes the Serb side was behind it, and that Dragan Covic had to know about the arrests.

Ten former members of the HVO from Orasje were arrested on 31 October. They were indicted for war crimes over Serb population in Orasje. One of them was the general Djuro Matuzovic. One month after the arrests, the Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina decided in favor of release of defendants pending trial.

PATRIA: You said that the HDZ BiH leadership must have known that the group was going to be arrested. Why do you say that Covic knew what was coming?

BUDIMIR: The deputy security minister BiH, Mijo Kresic, is a high ranking official of HDZ BiH and HNS. Gordana Tadic, the Head of the Department for war crimes within the Prosecutor's office BiH, was hired at this recommendation. She is presently acting Chief Prosecutor BiH. Kresic and Tadic are related. Therefore, on the basis of his private and work relations, Kresic must have heard about the arrests.

Furthermore, I have information, and from credible sources, that Djuro Knezevic led the operation (the arrests) in Orasje. Knezevic is from Orasje, and so are the HDZ BiH personnel. All this leads me to believe that, since people from HDZ were involved in the arrest, the HDZ leadership must have known that the arrest was to take place. It is hard to believe that they did not inform their bosses about it.  

PATRIA: If the HDZ leaders kept silent, did they have a reason to do so? Why were Matuzovic et al arrested after all? To what extent could they be responsible for the events during the war in BiH?

BUDIMIR: I firmly believe that the arrest in Orasje was planned to deepen already shaken confidence, even intolerance between Bosniaks and Croats.  

I also think that the arrest is a part of a bigger plan for a wider region, relating to geopolitical restructuring, which have been particularly active since the decision about the accession of Monte Negro to the NATO. The goal is to disable any possibility for a war partnership between Croats and Bosniaks in the event of new war in the region so as to strengthen the Serb position in Bosnia and Herzegovina, as well as in the Balkans region proper.

From the very moment of the arrest, some of Croatian media, probably at the initiative of the political leadership of HDZ BiH and HNS, tried to channel frustrations of the Croat people in BiH towards Bosniak political leadership.

It is the fact that the political leadership of Croats in BiH, which has extremely strong relations with Milorad Dodik, and Belgrade, is still trying to turn Bosnian Croats, and automatically those living in Croatia, against the Bosniak structure. The political leadership of Croats in BiH has business, friendly, political and even intelligence – security relate relations with Dodik and Belgrade.

PATRIA: Do you believe there is a possibility for new conflicts in BiH after everything that the region went through back in the 90's? Do you think it possible to turn people against each other again?

BUDIMIR: Those speculations or forecasting of the possible war activities in BiH is not just prattling. Various studies, including those done in the United States where a strategic group led by an admiral, recently published political forecasts for the world, which said that one of possible wars is the one in the Balkans i.e. in BiH.

I have an impression that the events in Orasje cannot be viewed only as a sequel of the activities which are the consequence of the 1991 – 1995 war, and the action of the judiciary institutions in BiH. There is always something hiding in the background.

Back in the 90's, people in BiH thought 'nobody could divide us'. On the contrary, it was easy (to divide us). In every nation you have a percentage of people ready to accept that way of problem solving. And, if the circumstances take you there, you just go with it. Or else, you leave the country or you take a shotgun and go to the war with your compatriots against others.

Key issues in BiH remain unresolved. Tensions are high. At the same time, what can cause another war, or what I think is the only thing that can cause another war – are the interests of big powers. We have witnessed the attempt to eliminate Milo Djukanovic on the election day in Montenegro. That attempt did not come from Montenegro – it came from the outside.

We can expect similar attempts in BiH, Croatia, and we have also seen that similar messages were sent to Serbia's Prime Minister, Aleksandar Vucic.

We may recall Vucic's doing during the war in BiH. Just remember his famous speech at the assembly of Serbia, when he said that for every dead Serb, 100 Muslims should be killed. We can also remember that he was most of the times Seselj's entourage during his visits to BiH, even when nominating chetnik dukes on Romanija back in 1992, one of those being Tomislav Nikolic, the current president of Serbia.

That same Vucic, who has distanced himself slightly from that ideology, now receives a warning that he too could be eliminated.

It is evident that the Serb institutions such as the Serb Academy of Science and Art (SANA), the Serb Orthodox Church... have not given upon the project of Great Serbia, and their aspiration might as well be used by the foreign powers to provoke another conflict in the former Yugoslavia. Therefore, it is only the matter of the interest and support from the outside.

The relations in the region have worsened because of the decision about the accession of Montenegro in the NATO... Unless we are wise and mature enough, there is a possibility for another conflict in the region of former Yugoslavia. The most convenient entry point for that is Bosnia and Herzegovina as the entire region can be pulled into new conflicts through BiH.

PATRIA: As regards your reference to the tensions in the region, why do you think that arrest of general Matuzovic and other members of HVO could benefit Covic?

BUDIMIR: General Djuro Matuzovic and almost entire military leadership of the Croats in Orasje which acted during the BH war got arrested. You don't make such grand moves unless you have multiple benefit of it.

Djuro Matuzovic was a prominent official of the HDZ 1990. Most of the other people who also got arrested, were involved in that political option, hence they are opponents of the HDZ and Dragan Covic.  

Another dimension of that arrest was that the process of taking responsibility for the war crimes has been re-opened, and I expect more arrests thereafter. That is the way to eliminate political opponents and all those who present a threat to the existing political structures in BiH.

After the elections for the Croatian Sabor earlier this year, it became clear who the biggest threat is to preserving the present positions at the top of HDZ BiH. General Glasnovic, as the option contra HDZ, achieved the best electoral result, and he was supported by the people mainly from the HVO.

If you analyze the results of the recent local elections in BiH, you will notice that the former HVO members have greatly jeopardized the positions of HDZ in some municipalities in the Western Herzegovina.

PATRIA: If Covic knew about the arrest ahead of the time, is it possible that he did not warn Zagreb, or he did but Zagreb kept silent?

BUDIMIR: We are entering now the zone of speculations... However, what I was able to conclude was that it was not coincidental that the arrests were done after the visit of the new Croatian prime minister to Bosnia and Herzegovina. They (the arrests) were supposed to send a message of some sort.

PATRIA: What kind of message was sent to Plenkovic and by whom?

BUDIMIR: We shall be speculating yet again... Nevertheless, we can draw some conclusions that, one of the messages for the prime minister of Croatia was: 'We are important here, and if you are not with us, this is how we can destabilize you and your position in Croatia, and complicate already complicated relations in Croatia.

PATRIA: Does it mean that HDZ BiH has a greater power in Zagreb than vice versa?

BUDIMIR: That has been my impression for quite some time. 

PATRIA: Is the HDZ BiH really as strong as it is portrayed in public? What are the forces in BiH which could offer to the citizens a positive change? SDA is also trying to create an impression of being the number one among the Bosniaks, even though there is an alternative? When it comes to Croats, it all seems already decided...

BUDIMIR: Of course there is room for other, different political forces. The illusion created that there was nobody who could stand up to HDZ was the result of a very good work of HDZ in breaking up the opposition. It has been done systematically, particularly so from 2000 to date when the key positions in that party were taken over by the persons who had been members of the intelligence community during Yugoslavia.  

Those people know well the methods which UDBA and KOS had used to break up others, and they use those methods now perfectly well for the opposition.

Bosnia and Herzegovina and its people, the three peoples and the others, do not stand a chance to build a quality state with quality institutions in it, if we continue to function in accordance with the ethnic principle, as we function today – with Bosniak leadership representing only Bosniak interests, the Croat leadership representing only Croat interests etc. The institutions of Republika Srpska show no intention of protecting Croats or Bosniaks.

I do not want HDZ to protect my interests. I want to be protected by the institutions of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

PATRIA: When Covic speaks about Herzeg-Bosnia or the third entity, is he honest? And, is the third entity really the only solution for the Croats in BiH?

BUDIMIR: The best answer to the question has been given by Dragan Covic himself. Just see how the story intensifies – only before the elections. Or each time he feels threatened. There's just no example of his concrete action aimed at establishing the third entity, or renewal of Herzeg-Bosnia.  

In 2004, I publicly presented a proposal for regionalization of BiH in 4 regions but not by ethnic principle and not according to the existing territorial division of BiH. The regions would be established on the basis of historical, geographical and economical principles. I still believe that to be the best structure for BiH.

Having said that, we have to think reasonably. If BiH cannot function as a normal state in any way other than as organized in three federal units, if that is a condition for the normal functioning of the country, let us do it that way, but at the same time, let us create mechanisms which will prevent any sort of discrimination of any people or minority group for each federal unit.

Federal units that would function as the Republika Srpska functions today, in which Croats and Bosniaks have been stripped off their rights, where despite of the constitutional decision about equal rights and constituency, they have less rights than national minorities – that mustn't be a solution for Bosnia and Herzegovina. The Republika Srpska as it is, makes the strongest argument against federalization of Bosnia and Herzegovina by the ethnic principle.